Below are a few comments to the article of politics and DREAMERS. There were many more posts but they were negative and borderline insulting. This may not be the best way to handle the information from the other side. However, I am sure that the anti-immigrationists are over represented in the blog world , so for this time I'll keep them out of the conversation.
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undocumented students
As a long-time international student advisor, I had to swallow my anger at hearing about refusals to treat all students equally and the outcry against undocumented students.
After calming down, I would want to suggest on a practical level that schools should not be ICE cops. Our jobs are to educate, not adjudicate. Having worked with INS law just for interntional students for almost 20 years, I know the rules are complex, often depending upon context and a variety of ifs, ands and buts. Moreover, schools do not have the authority to declare someone undocumented or out of status. That decision IS made by ICE or immigration judges.
Finally, I worry that we talk about illegal people...people cannot be illegal, only acts can be illegal. I worry that the anger and xenophobia expressed can become here what it became elsewhere in the 1930’s.
Theron, at 8:45 am EST on December 5, 2007
Undocumented students
I want to support Theron’s comment regarding the inappropriateness of academic institutions attempting to enforce immigration regulations, as this task is clearly reserved for Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). The rules are indeed complex, and determining whether someone may or may not have valid immigration status can in certain cases be most difficult, even for those of us who have worked with the immigration regulations as long as Theron and I have. And, in any case, that determination can only legitimately be made by the immigration authorities.
This is the reason many of us who are familiar with immigration regulations oppose local laws requiring police, landlords, and emergency service providers to determine whether those needing assistance or service are in the US legally. Similarly, academic institutions should also stay out of the immigration enforcement business.
Immigration enforcement may appear a great hot-button issue that seems to some to allow a “bright line” distinction: one clearly either is, or is not, here legally. Unfortunately, the actual situation is much more complex than it appears at first glance. Sadly, complexity and critical thinking are not often brought to bear in addressing immigration issues these days.
debsailor, at 9:40 am EST on December 5, 2007
Undocumented Students
Although the United States (U.S.) Supreme Court’s ruling in Plyler v. Doe (1982) supported access to education for undocumented immigrants through high school. Currently, federal laws do not prohibit these students from enrolling in public colleges and universities; however, undocumented students are expected to pay out-of-state tuition fees regardless of their in-state residency.
The impact of equipping a population already contributing to the state will increase the economic significance of immigrants. The perception of undocumented immigrants as a drain on the economy and abusers of resources has proven to be untrue. According to Lippman (2006) Undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy (p. 1).”
As this debate continues to rage on what is lost is the contribution of immigrants to this country. The events of September 11th launched this country into an anti-immigrant frenzy that has not dissipated criminalizing undocumented children, who’s population is estimated at 1.8 million. As we seek to fill gaps and admit foreign scientist and engineers we should consider investing in a population that is already here seeking to contribute to American society.
Wil Del Pilar, Ph.D. student at Penn State University, at 10:10 am EST on December 5, 2007
Community college- undocumented
The U.S. Constitution protects the rights of everybody in the country, regardless of their legal status. That includes the right to an education.
Lorena, at 11:30 am EST on December 5, 2007
Sugar Coat This!
Undocumented people are poor and are human beings. To treat them as vermin or pests to be disposed of may be fine with the KKK crowd, but not for humanitarians that still believe that all are created equal and endowed by their creator, not Dick Cheney, the KKK, the Bush US Government nor David Horowitz with certain inalienable rights. Those are for all humans, not just those who have a piece of paper to be human in your eyes.
On the other hand, illegal immigration soared under Bush’s misrule and the misrule of the Republican dominated Congress even in the years after 9/11. If Republicans really wanted to stop this instead of profiting from cheap labor, they could have done it at any time! They seem to want a permanent, undocumented worker class with no chance of social mobility, rights and recognition. In other words, Republican hypocrisy simply says, “Sweep the floors, harvest the vegetables, pick the fruit, and clean the houses as long as you don’t try to rise above poverty, staying here is just fine. Try to dream the American dream and we’ll rip your guts out!”
Nice, these right wing social conservatives. I guess Jesus stood for the same thing, right? They’re only “illegal” when its inconvenient!
Diogenes, at 1:50 pm EST on December 5, 2007
As an undocumented high school student I truely do understand both sides of the “argument". Many times many of us do not see how we are affecting the ecomony, other individuals, the country, etc. I believe that a big problem when discussing “illegal immigrantion” people generalize. Not EVERY illegal immigrant is the same. Some of us DO want to be part of this amazing country. Some of us DO NOT want to cause problems. Some of us DO want to help the economy and other people, because legal or not, we see ourselves as an Americans.
I am currently a senior in high school, I have been applying to colleges, and I am SO GRATEFUL that I have the opportunity to pursue a higher education. And although I know I will most likely will NOT receive financial aid, I am happy to at least have the opportunity to make my dreams reality.
I just wished that people would understand that some of us just want an opportunity! THAT IS ALL!
I know that there is so much more to that...but I have hope that one day people will understand, and lend a hand to those who truely need it, legal or not.
Thank-you.
S.E, at 3:25 pm EST on December 5, 2007
I can’t understand how someone could really think that a minor child brought in to the US illegally by his/her parents should be punished by denying education. If a student has gone through high school in the U.S. they had to have been brought in, and made no conscious decision to violate U.S. laws. Why should they be held accountable for the actions of their parents in this particularly destructive way. They will suffer enough without denying them education.
KBS, at 5:05 pm EST on December 5, 2007
American Dream
It’s ridiculous that people think that by creating stricter laws and building a wall the problem with illegal immigration will be solved. People come to this country not to cause havoc or misfortune, but because US companie are MORE than willing to offer them jobs. If you want to solve a problem, you have to control the demand (US companies), not the supply (labor). But what many of conservatives don’t see is that the people that YOU ELECT into office are the ones creating the demand for cheap labor. Republicans support big business right? And who are the ones looking to hire this cheap labor?? Hmmm.... Your own government makes sure that nothing is done towards solving this problem. Think about your legal environment before trying to solve this problem by stepping on kids who only wish to CONTRIBUTE to you country!
Deisy, American Dream at CSULB, at 3:20 pm EST on December 6, 2007
for link to complete IHE article and comments click the title of this post
Showing posts with label politics in academia. Show all posts
Showing posts with label politics in academia. Show all posts
Tuesday, April 1, 2008
Politics and the DREAMERS Part I
This article actually appeared several months ago - but the subject is always timely, written from an academic perspective. The commentaries are just as interesting and will follow in Politics and the DREAMERS Part II
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Inside Higher Education
Dec. 5
Political Explosion on Undocumented Students
A recent legal memo from the North Carolina Community College System office broadening the definition of “open door” admissions sparked a firestorm across the state. Citing a 1997 state attorney general opinion that “denies colleges the authority to ‘impose nonacademic requirements on admissions,’” David J. Sullivan, assistant to the president for legal affairs for the system, wrote to the leaders of the 58 community colleges that, “notwithstanding any policy of the local board, colleges should immediately begin admitting undocumented individuals” as out-of-state residents.
Many states are debating rules about in-state tuition rates for such students, but the North Carolina fight is over the right to enroll at all — even at full price. The system memo followed the revelation that 21 of the colleges were barring illegal immigrants, at least as of the last statewide count in 2005. The varying policies are the result of a 2004 state system memo that left the question up to local colleges.
The new directive has become political dynamite in the state, with the five leading Democratic and Republican candidates for governor condemning it within days of when it became public last week, and residents flooding the phone lines of their political and college leaders. “The directive issued by the North Carolina Community College System to mandate all community colleges across our state admit illegal immigrants as students simply ignores our immigration laws. If we ignore these laws, what other laws should we consider as unnecessary to obey?” State Senator Fred Smith, a Republican candidate for governor, said in his statement.
Meanwhile, the current governor, Michael F. Easley, a Democrat, defended the practice of admitting undocumented students who qualify and pay out-of-state tuition rates. And Martin Lancaster, the system president, released a statement Monday emphasizing the community colleges’ inclusive missions and stressing that the affected students, mostly brought to the United States by their parents as children, did not make the decision to come to the country illegally and most likely won’t be returning to their nations of origin. “To deny a significant portion of tomorrow’s workforce any higher education opportunities will not only hurt these young people who came to North Carolina through no fault of their own, but it will also significantly diminish their incomes forever. The consequences to North Carolina are reduced tax collections and potential payments for social services and incarceration long into the future.”
But where, amid all this debate, do the individual colleges that barred illegal immigrants in the past stand? The new memo after all stemmed from a case in which an undocumented high school student attempting to enroll in a community college through the state’s dual enrollment “Learn and Earn” program was initially denied, as a system spokeswoman, Audrey Bailey, explained. From among the system’s 271,000 degree-, diploma-, and certificate-seeking students, only 340 are undocumented.
At Raleigh’s Wake Technical Community College, which up until the recent directive maintained a policy of not admitting undocumented students, President Stephen Scott described its former approach as a pragmatic one. The North Carolina community college tuition rate for full-time non-residents – including undocumented students — is $7,464 per year, compared to $1,344 for in-staters. Illegal immigrants are ineligible for federal financial aid. “It was not presented to our board of trustees as an option for the simple fact that there were no students who were lining up to pay $7,000 to attend,” said Scott. “It was not an issue.”
At other colleges, however, it very much is. Eric McKeithan, president of Cape Fear Community College in Wilmington, said that the college had up until now maintained its policy of not admitting illegal immigrants for three reasons, one of them being overcrowding. Since the system directive, about 30 undocumented students have applied to his rapidly growing college, where he estimates from 800 to 1,000 students had to be turned away this fall. He’s come up with a simple formula to predict future enrollment: “If I build a new classroom that will hold 500 people, I’ll have a 500-person enrollment increase.”
“Regardless of what side you fall down on, there is the matter of, these people are undocumented aliens,” said McKeithan. “We have a local obligation to serve local folks first.”
Citing the popular nursing program, for instance, which accepts 90 students per year based on the quality of applications, and turns away hundreds, “Now under the new directive, I don’t see that we have a choice… If an undocumented alien ranks among the highest 90 people qualified and we let that person in, I can promise you there are going to be 200 or 300 [other] people whose families have been around for generations who have helped build this institution – it’s going to hurt that one person” not admitted.
“I don’t know if it’s a numbers game, it’s an emotional issue, it’s a political issue,” McKeithan said, adding that the college does intend to comply with the state directive. “I know the other side of the story and I empathize with kids whose families brought them here and they are unauthorized aliens. I empathize with that, but I think that’s where state legislatures and the Congress have to make decisions” rather than leave them to local discretion.
Meanwhile, at Rockingham Community College, over in Wentworth in a rural area near the Virginia line, President Robert Keys said he was happy to see the new statewide directive. “I think it’s the right thing to do, to clarify this on a system-wide scale. I think it came probably two or three years too late. But it’s better now than not at all,” Keys said Tuesday. Rockingham opened its doors to undocumented students just one year ago in 2006.
“What really prompted me to take a look at it was just the sheer numbers who were involved, the number of people coming into our county and our service area who had a need for educational services,” Keys said.
“There are people here who feel we’re doing the wrong thing, that we’re spending taxpayer money to educate people who aren’t citizens in the United States. On the other hand, the tuition they pay more than exceeds the state reimbursement so they’re paying their freight.” (The system estimates the cost of educating a community college student is $5,375 per year, about $2,000 less than the out-of-state tuition rate.) Keys added, however, that he’d like to see undocumented students – and non-resident students in general – eligible for in-state rates. (The issue of whether undocumented students should be eligible for in-state tuition rates is a debate unto itself).
“The cost is prohibitive,” agreed Lawrence Rouse, the president of James Sprunt Community College, a college in a heavily agricultural section of eastern North Carolina that already had a policy to admit undocumented students in place before the directive. “Once they are permitted to be admitted at the out-of-state rate, at least that opens the door up a little bit for them to get an adequate education. And if they’re going to be in the United States, we need everyone to be educated in order to be competitive,” Rouse said. “I think if you don’t do that then you’re relegating them to a permanent underclass.”
— Elizabeth Redden
for link to IHE article click the title of this post
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Inside Higher Education
Dec. 5
Political Explosion on Undocumented Students
A recent legal memo from the North Carolina Community College System office broadening the definition of “open door” admissions sparked a firestorm across the state. Citing a 1997 state attorney general opinion that “denies colleges the authority to ‘impose nonacademic requirements on admissions,’” David J. Sullivan, assistant to the president for legal affairs for the system, wrote to the leaders of the 58 community colleges that, “notwithstanding any policy of the local board, colleges should immediately begin admitting undocumented individuals” as out-of-state residents.
Many states are debating rules about in-state tuition rates for such students, but the North Carolina fight is over the right to enroll at all — even at full price. The system memo followed the revelation that 21 of the colleges were barring illegal immigrants, at least as of the last statewide count in 2005. The varying policies are the result of a 2004 state system memo that left the question up to local colleges.
The new directive has become political dynamite in the state, with the five leading Democratic and Republican candidates for governor condemning it within days of when it became public last week, and residents flooding the phone lines of their political and college leaders. “The directive issued by the North Carolina Community College System to mandate all community colleges across our state admit illegal immigrants as students simply ignores our immigration laws. If we ignore these laws, what other laws should we consider as unnecessary to obey?” State Senator Fred Smith, a Republican candidate for governor, said in his statement.
Meanwhile, the current governor, Michael F. Easley, a Democrat, defended the practice of admitting undocumented students who qualify and pay out-of-state tuition rates. And Martin Lancaster, the system president, released a statement Monday emphasizing the community colleges’ inclusive missions and stressing that the affected students, mostly brought to the United States by their parents as children, did not make the decision to come to the country illegally and most likely won’t be returning to their nations of origin. “To deny a significant portion of tomorrow’s workforce any higher education opportunities will not only hurt these young people who came to North Carolina through no fault of their own, but it will also significantly diminish their incomes forever. The consequences to North Carolina are reduced tax collections and potential payments for social services and incarceration long into the future.”
But where, amid all this debate, do the individual colleges that barred illegal immigrants in the past stand? The new memo after all stemmed from a case in which an undocumented high school student attempting to enroll in a community college through the state’s dual enrollment “Learn and Earn” program was initially denied, as a system spokeswoman, Audrey Bailey, explained. From among the system’s 271,000 degree-, diploma-, and certificate-seeking students, only 340 are undocumented.
At Raleigh’s Wake Technical Community College, which up until the recent directive maintained a policy of not admitting undocumented students, President Stephen Scott described its former approach as a pragmatic one. The North Carolina community college tuition rate for full-time non-residents – including undocumented students — is $7,464 per year, compared to $1,344 for in-staters. Illegal immigrants are ineligible for federal financial aid. “It was not presented to our board of trustees as an option for the simple fact that there were no students who were lining up to pay $7,000 to attend,” said Scott. “It was not an issue.”
At other colleges, however, it very much is. Eric McKeithan, president of Cape Fear Community College in Wilmington, said that the college had up until now maintained its policy of not admitting illegal immigrants for three reasons, one of them being overcrowding. Since the system directive, about 30 undocumented students have applied to his rapidly growing college, where he estimates from 800 to 1,000 students had to be turned away this fall. He’s come up with a simple formula to predict future enrollment: “If I build a new classroom that will hold 500 people, I’ll have a 500-person enrollment increase.”
“Regardless of what side you fall down on, there is the matter of, these people are undocumented aliens,” said McKeithan. “We have a local obligation to serve local folks first.”
Citing the popular nursing program, for instance, which accepts 90 students per year based on the quality of applications, and turns away hundreds, “Now under the new directive, I don’t see that we have a choice… If an undocumented alien ranks among the highest 90 people qualified and we let that person in, I can promise you there are going to be 200 or 300 [other] people whose families have been around for generations who have helped build this institution – it’s going to hurt that one person” not admitted.
“I don’t know if it’s a numbers game, it’s an emotional issue, it’s a political issue,” McKeithan said, adding that the college does intend to comply with the state directive. “I know the other side of the story and I empathize with kids whose families brought them here and they are unauthorized aliens. I empathize with that, but I think that’s where state legislatures and the Congress have to make decisions” rather than leave them to local discretion.
Meanwhile, at Rockingham Community College, over in Wentworth in a rural area near the Virginia line, President Robert Keys said he was happy to see the new statewide directive. “I think it’s the right thing to do, to clarify this on a system-wide scale. I think it came probably two or three years too late. But it’s better now than not at all,” Keys said Tuesday. Rockingham opened its doors to undocumented students just one year ago in 2006.
“What really prompted me to take a look at it was just the sheer numbers who were involved, the number of people coming into our county and our service area who had a need for educational services,” Keys said.
“There are people here who feel we’re doing the wrong thing, that we’re spending taxpayer money to educate people who aren’t citizens in the United States. On the other hand, the tuition they pay more than exceeds the state reimbursement so they’re paying their freight.” (The system estimates the cost of educating a community college student is $5,375 per year, about $2,000 less than the out-of-state tuition rate.) Keys added, however, that he’d like to see undocumented students – and non-resident students in general – eligible for in-state rates. (The issue of whether undocumented students should be eligible for in-state tuition rates is a debate unto itself).
“The cost is prohibitive,” agreed Lawrence Rouse, the president of James Sprunt Community College, a college in a heavily agricultural section of eastern North Carolina that already had a policy to admit undocumented students in place before the directive. “Once they are permitted to be admitted at the out-of-state rate, at least that opens the door up a little bit for them to get an adequate education. And if they’re going to be in the United States, we need everyone to be educated in order to be competitive,” Rouse said. “I think if you don’t do that then you’re relegating them to a permanent underclass.”
— Elizabeth Redden
for link to IHE article click the title of this post
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