November 12, 2007 Monday
CNN
Immigrants and Military Service; Hillary Clinton Under Fire
Jim Acosta, Ted Rowlands, Rick Sanchez, Elizabeth Cohen
GUESTS: Darrell Scott, Ed Morrissey, William Gheen, Ole Anthony, Reggie Walton
HIGHLIGHT: Should illegal immigrants in the U.S. military be granted automatic citizenship?...
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: It's Veterans Day.
So, there's something really important that I think we should talk about. You know, I always say in this show and in my conversations with Lou that it's not about the immigrants. It's about immigration, immigration, a policy. That's what we in this country somehow have to fix, especially -- You ready? -- especially if the immigrants in particular are willing to give their lives for this country, die for the United States of America.
On this Veterans Day, here are the facts. And these are important. More than 100 immigrants have gone to Iraq or Afghanistan and gotten killed as part of the U.S. military. That's important. Thousands more are there fighting for our country right now, in fact, tens of thousands we now learn. And the president has signed an order that gives those guys something called the fast track, which essentially says this.
Look, if you're willing to fight for America, you should be treated like an American, those people. It's like an exception. Well, most people would agree with that, right?
Not William Gheen. He's joining us right now. He's the president of Americans For Legal Immigration.
Let me read to you, Mr. Gheen, what the president actually said. Let's put that up, if we can.
If somebody is willing to risk their lives for our country -- quote -- "They ought to be full participants in our country."
Where is he wrong?
WILLIAM GHEEN, PRESIDENT, AMERICANS FOR LEGAL IMMIGRATION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE: Well, immigrants in the military are fine. But trying to stick illegal aliens in the military, come on, Rick. They have shown a disregard for our territorial jurisdiction and our borders.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about what you would call illegal aliens. Those are the ones the president is talking about.
(CROSSTALK) GHEEN: All right. Well, you called them immigrants, and I wish you would stop insulting immigrants by comparing them to illegal aliens. It's very rude to call them that, because immigrants have done things the right way. Illegal aliens have broken many laws.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, actually, I will tell you where you're wrong. Most of the people who are in your words illegal aliens or illegal immigrants actually came to the United States legally and then tried to process their papers after they were here or allowed their visa to expire.
So, they actually came into the country legally to begin with. And that's about half the people that you call illegal aliens. Answer that, sir.
GHEEN: Well, right at that point, they become legally termed illegal aliens. And it is affront and anti-immigrant to try to compare them to America's law-abiding immigrants.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, you're saying, a soldier goes to Iraq, either dies or is there willing to die for his country, and still we shouldn't make an exception?
Hold your answer, because we have got a report that we prepared. I want you and our viewers to watch this. And then we will talk about it a little bit more on the other side.
Here's CNN's Ted Rowlands now following one immigrant who fought in Iraq and just took the citizenship oath.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thirty-five-year- old U.S. Army Sergeant Darwin Phillips saw combat in Iraq wearing an American uniform, but he has never seen the inside of an American voting booth, because he is a foreigner.
DARWIN PHILLIPS, NEW U.S. CITIZEN: I believe deeply about this country and what it stands for. I'm willing to put my life to defend this country.
That I will support and defend...
ROWLANDS: Until this ceremony last week, Phillips was not an American citizen. This is the payback the U.S. government gives Sergeant Phillips and other immigrants willing to put their lives on the line for America, a fast track to citizenship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALES AND FEMALE: And justice for all.
ROWLANDS: At this ceremony, Sergeant Phillips was one of 36 so- called green card troops representing 17 different countries that became citizens of the country they had already been defending. Darwin Phillips came to the U.S. 15 years ago from the Philippines. His wife, Nicole, and three sons are already U.S. citizens.
NICOLE PHILLIPS, WIFE OF DARWIN PHILLIPS: It makes me so proud of him and of all his accomplishments and his dedication to everything that he does every day for our country.
ROWLANDS: Because of his service, Sergeant Phillips was allowed to move through the citizenship process faster than someone not in the military, saving him an estimated year-and-a-half. He also didn't have to pay the $600 plus in filing fees. Immigration officials say these soldiers do get preferential treatment, but it's not a free ride.
TOM PAAR, U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES: They fill out the same forms. They do everything. But we just -- as we say, we have a special agency and organization in Nebraska that handles these applications and handles them very quickly.
ROWLANDS (on camera): Is it fair for you to get different treatment just because you're in the military?
D. PHILLIPS: We serve the military knowing that this is what we want. So, you know, sacrificing our -- putting our life on the line even before we're citizens, bearing arms.
This is it right here.
ROWLANDS (voice-over): Darwin Phillips says taking the oath of citizenship fulfills a dream he's had since coming to America. He's looking forward to voting for president next year and if he's sent into harm's way again, he will be defending a country that is his.
D. PHILLIPS: Now I'm truly part of America. And it's wonderful.
ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, CNN, Las Vegas, Nevada.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: All right.
So, Bill, you would tell this guy -- he comes back to the United States -- hey, thanks for doing your job; thanks for sacrificing your life; now get out of the country; you're deported? You would say that to him?
GHEEN: No. No. I would say, if he's an illegal alien, he shouldn't be in the military anyway, for three important reasons.
One, it's ridiculous to think that illegal aliens are going to defend our borders and our states against invasion, Rick. Two, we already have a problem where forces trained by the U.S. military, such as Las Zetas, which controls the border more than the Border Patrol, were trained by the American military at Fort Benning, South Carolina. Now they're importing drugs and illegal aliens.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, hold on a minute. I want to go back to number one. I just started thinking about what you just said.
It's ridiculous to think that an illegal alien would defend our country.
GHEEN: Defend our borders.
SANCHEZ: You just had one.
GHEEN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: We just had one on the air who did just that.
GHEEN: That's an illegal -- you said that guy is an illegal alien in the military?
SANCHEZ: He is. He's an illegal alien in the military.
GHEEN: He needs to be arrested and detained as soon as possible and put back in his home country.
You think that training these people with arms and demolitions is a good idea? You have got 60 percent of the people in Mexico that feel that the United States shouldn't even control the Southwest United States, and you're going to train them in arms and explosives? Bet the French are glad they didn't do that before the illegal aliens started burning half the country over the last two years, Rick.
SANCHEZ: So, man, you just hate these guys. You just want them -- I mean, you want them punished altogether.
(CROSSTALK)
GHEEN: There's no hate. The truth is not hate.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: This guy is not -- he's a decent American. He's married. He has got a lovely family. He loves this country and he's willing to give his life for his country, just like...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: ... already have.
GHEEN: You just lost this debate. The DREAM Act, which would have allowed military service to turn into citizenship, didn't even get off the ground. And Rasmussen polls reports that only 22 percent of the public supported that measure.
SANCHEZ: Right.
GHEEN: And 68 opposed it.
We have had this conversation. We have won. We have won it.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But you know what? If all you want to do is tell me that you're right because there's a majority of people who agree with you, man, I can go back in history and tell you about majorities that agreed with a lot of things that we have gotten rid of because they were wrong, though. They were wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
GHEEN: Why don't you do this in American history? Go back and read about how it is the people of this country that run this country, Rick. Why don't you study that? And let's reflect the will of the American majority.
SANCHEZ: What does that have to do with anything? The will of the majority was to defend slavery as well.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I mean, that was wrong.
GHEEN: No. What -- Rick, you're playing the race card. You're trying to be the Al Sharpton of illegal immigration.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I'm not playing the race card.
(CROSSTALK)
GHEEN: We have already got Geraldo doing this projection racism thing. We don't need that.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: William, with all due respect -- and I like you and I like the fact that you come on our show, and we always have good, decent, respectable arguments.
GHEEN: I even wore the blue shirt. I wore the blue shirt you like, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Here's the point that I'm trying to make. These guys who go and defend their country are decent Americans. They're not here to hurt the United States in any which way. Would you not agree with that?
(CROSSTALK)
GHEEN: If they're an illegal American, they're not American and they're not decent. They have broken the laws, and they're illegal aliens.
SANCHEZ: All right. All right. We will continue the conversation at another time.
My thanks to you, William Gheen, for coming on and talking to that.
By the way, most of the polls show that even conservatives on this one disagree with you and agree with the president on this policy. We will come back and we will talk again.
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